Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.

yes you found the joke within the joke it was well-hidden indeed, hi5

Problem is since ganking is a approved game mechanic and is perfectly legal how can it be considered griefing?

You sound mad.

Are you mad?

While I don't really know why I am bothering to respond to this tiresome poster...

Suicide ganking IS profitable, just because you don't know how to make ISK doing it just further shows your limited understanding of the game.

Have fun trying to troll people on the forums though.

Unless of course the aim was to stop said hauler from selling / picking up goods in said system?

Or perhaps to disrupt him from supplying his corp for with goods?

Please sight 10 examples of this set of circumstances here and now.

Please understand that if an individual is ganking in the hope to shift prices in a certain market segment they are attempting to do it for profit. Then whether it is malicious or not becomes irrelevant.

This did not answer the question asked.

and if the person is in a NPC Corp?

"lulz" are a form of currency, are they not? If not, then WTF am I trading my cash for when I pay the bill for this game every month???

Also, art...even temporary, is a commodity as well. Every 4th we Americans shell out millions and millions of dollars on stuff that is meant to only shortly brighten up the sky in brilliant explosive colors. Ever seen a retriever pop? It's quite pretty! It's like a garden of flowers that dies in the wind. Nothing gold can stay...

There's also practice as well. Skills are a commodity that can only come through work. Stepping into the deep end right away makes it harder to learn. Popping a couple vessels in a short timespace can be a learning experience. First couple times I tried I failed and learned more about damage types and resistances.

So there's many forms of "profit" available in ganking. There's the "lulz". There's the artwork. There's the experience. Finally, in some cases, there's the ISK. I'm sure others can think of more.

Surely CCP understands these things as if they didn't they wouldn't bother making gun animations, cool novas, and pretty explosions. We'd just play EvE through a terminal and stare at a blank void. People wouldn't pay for that though....we expect to be entertained and we want to feel like we get more entertainment than we're paying for. Being entertained is a form of profit!

For scenario B to be griefing you'd have to qualitatively prove that the target in question was the sole target and/or was not part of a corp or alliance subject to economic warfare and logistics interdiction and/or acted to reduce potential risk while in transit to his destination. If any of the above are false, then it's anything but griefing.

They dont. The problem is the things you think are griefing are not considered griefing by CCP, otherwise they would ban them.

Cipher, if your goal is to try and get some decision that there should be limits of some sort for suicide ganking (such as a pilot is limited as to how many times they can gank the same miner) I think you and I both know that is never going to happen. It would open the door to thousands of petitions trying to use the statement as leverage to say that the same ruling should apply to their particular situation as well.

The intent of CCP's griefing policy is pretty clear. It is to allow them grounds to ban someone if they get carried away on a personal vendetta aimed at forcing a specific individual to quit the game via harassment. Its fairly generic language allows CCP to determine what constitutes that level of harassment at their discretion, without fear of rules lawyering.

In all sincerity, don't think you are going to get what you want out of this.

Actually, if CCP were to enforce this rule, any sort of camping, i.e. cloaky camping, station camping, or ragecaging a pos would be ban-able. I've come to the realization, that CCP just doesn't give a **** anymore. They only care about those who drop cash on this game, or suck d*ck like Mittani does.

Their primary goal is too: Make as much MONEY as possible.


If you hadn't noticed, people stopped bitching about cloaky campers, why? Because CCP kept telling them it was "legal". Goons bitched about Sov Warfare not being "hard" enough, so they changed it. CCP only cares what the power houses think, and whose dumping the most cash into their game.


This is EVE. **** happens, Get over it.


Piece of Advice, just keep spamming their petition system.



Quoted from Urban Dictionary. Said statement is false, if said person goes to another location. Griefing is only ban-able when said griefer is following/stalking said victim. Otherwise, CCP won't do ****. Good Luck, Have Fun.


@ Mittani: The fact that you were chosen as CSM shows how ****** this Community really is. Goons will always be bottom feeders.

Payment can come in many, many forms; just because you disagree with what is considered profit is just speculation.

Furthermore, you can do pretty much whatever you want in EvE, with little repurcussion. Arguing that something wasn't profitable cannot be proven. How can CCP or anyone else know if I was paid to destroy someone's ship? If your wallet and ship hangar look like mine, and you kill someone because you want to:

Couldn't the satisfaction of their ship exploding be considered profit?
Could their rage being deposited into your evemail inbox be considered profit?
Could their actions of hiring mercenaries for great justice to come after you be considered profit?
Could the removal of their ship from your system be profitable (if they are no longer mining/missioning there)?

If you disagree with this, whole or in part; then chances are this isn't the game for you. EvE has been hard on more then one person, the beauty of this game is that it quickly seperates the people that want to get better and have an adaptable playstyle from the ones that live for instant gratification. This hasn't changed, and most of us are quite happy with it.

Its all well and good saying that people are getting harassed out of the game but until I see somebody post on the forum with a detailed description on how they were harassed out the game then I call foul.

...and is definitely not going to get banned for it.

Cipher Jones is griefing all of us by continually creating these horrible threads and then abandoning them when he gets his ass handed to him by people using logic and common sense.

can someone quote my long takedown of this idiot he has me on ignore because i have mocked his dumb opinions for months after blowing up all his ice mining ships tia

We like it here and if you are not of sufficient mental faculties to adapt and overcome, you will get crushed under the proverbial bootheel of every Deathbear/Pirate/Bully/AngryKid/Goon/BoredMerc as they pass you.

No, that is CCP's statement on what is allowed in EVE. You're just too busy crying too hear what they are saying.

CCP could change the rules tomorrow if they wanted to. They don't want to.

Kinda curious now as to how long your going to keep going with this 'kid who got pushed off the swings at the playground' attitude.

Nothing is broken.
Nothing needs to be fixed.
Nothing is going to change.

You adapt, you overcome, or you continue to die.

God forbid theres a game that actually forces you to learn from your mistakes.

I don't think CCP is overly concerned about their attrition rate, when the average player sports 3-4 accounts funded by PLEX...

They have said many, many times that suicide ganking is not griefing. You crying about it all the time on the forums doesn't change that.


You have zero proof for this is actually happening in any meaningful number.

CCP actually does have rules about name-calling on the forums. It's interesting that you're so willing to break that rule while whining about them not enforcing some rule that only exists in your imagination.

Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.

No. He's saying that what you define as griefing does not exist as instances of griefing of EVE, because it doesn't match CCP's definition. I can't recall anyone saying that there is no griefing in EVE. It's just that it isn't what you want it to be.

What actions and what words?
You make it sound like they are indeed, and contrary to your claims, enforcing the rules they haveGǪ

So which one is it?

Where did you get your psychology degree?

In this thread, you're the pubbie.




Figured I would clear that up for you; I will retract this statement when you post your SA UserName.

I too resort to strings of profanity when I lose arguments.

You're taking this pretty bad mate.

I called you a pubbie true, and given the appropriate feedback I would have taken back what I said- So technically by not refuting what I said you basically called yourself a pubbie. (I just won Internet Spaceship Forums).

While your entitled to spout on and on about griefing all you want, even though its already been stated and explained, in detail by numerous people at this point, your entire argument is wrong. The title of your thread is wrong, as is your entire viewpoint. I fail to see why I would have to do anything to 'help my case' when I have already proven my case (and the fact that you are wrong).

Feel free to let this thread die now, it should have happened days ago- but you keep coming back to whiteknight yourself in some rediculous cause that you are going to sway CCP into doing something about griefing or at least having them expunge on their vague meaning of the word. Your determination should be applauded sir, even if you are wrong.

This thread will live forever on in constant reminder of one asshat who didn't like to be told he was wrong; by anyone, ever.